User talk:Osprey

Hey there fellow fixer! First of all, let me say I really appreciate your efforts in putting the game right. Your solutions show a lot of research and dedication. Since I was unable to even start the game in the first place, I did my own research, which led me to contribute some fixes to this page. That said, forcing AA or AF has no result on the visuals, with or without the unofficial patch, using dgVoodoo or any other renderer. I did careful 1:1 "before-after" comparisons by studying screenshots taken in different areas of the game. The image quality is still the same. About your other fixes: applying the unofficial patch does not let me start the game (tested both CD and GOG). If it works for other people, it would be good to include some kind of reference. The only fix which lets me even start the game is using the -windowgui switch. There seems to be common agreement to that (JKDF2.com), so I'll include this fix with a reference. Even with the switch, I am still unable to start a new game using 3D acceleration (after the introductory cutscene for level 1, there is an error message in-game) - I tested this with the newest AMD driver, so your solution here may not work for everyone. Again, a reference would be nice if it does work. Anyways, keep up the good job :)

EDIT: Again on the subject of AA/AF. Spent a couple of hours today testing different compatibility settings for JK/MotS. Forcing AA/AF through the video card's control panel indeed does not work, at least on AMD (tested with latest driver). However, I had and issue with dgVoodoo - its settings don't get applied unless dgVoodooCpl.exe is in the same directory as the game exe. Before I found that out, I wrongly assumed that forcing AA/AF thru dgVoodoo doesn't work either. And yes, I did study different screenshots, only the AA/AF settings I changed with dgVoodoo were not reflected in the game! My apologies for editing out your fix, then. I've already reverted my edit and made your description a bit more specific there. Again, sorry for my mistake mate!

Thanks. Yeah, I spend way too much of my spare time researching and making sure that my solutions work. In fact, I just spent the last few hours researching and then editing the Jedi Outcast page (what's wrong with me?). It sounds like you're the same way.

Regarding AA/AF, it sounds like you eventually discovered the same thing, but I definitely saw improvement when I forced them in the dgVoodoo control panel. You do need to run it from the game folder or else your settings might be saved to the global dgVoodoo settings (stored in AppData\Roaming), and since the settings in the game folder take precedence, they'll never be applied that way. Running dgVoodooCpl.exe from the game folder avoids that issue. I did say in my instructions to extract it directly to the game folder, so I think that it should be clear enough in the next step that it's to be run from the game folder.

As for the unofficial patch, I realize that it, alone, may not be enough for everyone to run the game, just like -windowgui or dgVoodoo may not be enough on their own, either. It's a good first thing to try, though, since it runs just fine in Windows 10 without any compatibility settings and so many other fixes and mods assume that it's been applied or require it.

As for -windowgui and JKDF2.com, that website is a little out of date, IMO. They say that -windowgui is absolutely essential to get 3D acceleration, but I get 3D acceleration on my desktop and my ancient laptop without using that parameter. They also say that the AMD fix is necessary for AMD users, but both of my systems have AMD GPUs and I haven't had to use it, nor have I really even heard of anyone else needing it (anymore).

You mention the CD and GOG versions. There's an issue. When you install the GOG version, it adds a compatibility database to the registry that applies compatibility settings for JK.exe. Those compatibility settings don't seem to be necessary with Windows 10, especially not with the unofficial patch applied, and actually can prevent music from working in the game. That's why I added the fix that recommends renaming JK.exe to JediKnight.exe or something else (or editing the settings out of the registry) if you don't get music with the GOG release. The settings might also affect 3D acceleration and running the game for some people. It's also worth pointing out that, because the settings apply broadly to JK.EXE, they'll apply to non-GOG installations of the game, so, if you have both CD and GOG versions installed, you need to be careful that the GOG settings aren't affecting your CD installation. You can ensure that they're not by renaming the CD version's JK.exe to something else, too.

I felt confident enough in my steps to get JK working because I posted them earlier over on the GOG forum and quite a few people have told me that my steps got the game working for them when it wasn't before (and my post is "highly rated"). A few also said that it didn't help, but I'm pretty sure that that's because I originally recommended one of the alternate ddraw.dll files, instead of dgVoodoo, and I've since updated my recommendations accordingly. Of course, that's just with the GOG version, but once you apply the unofficial patch and remove the GOG compatibility settings (by renaming JK.exe), it's almost not the GOG version anymore, so the steps should work for other releases (and I've tested them with the CD release). My instructions are here, if you'd like to take a look and see if any of it helps you run the game better:

https://www.gog.com/forum/star_wars_dark_forces_series/jedi_knight_mots_hardware_acceleration_graphic_patches_for_all/post175

Anyways, it's a tricky game to get working, especially because there are so many different fixes, and tricky to put into wiki form. It's easy for me to just say "do these steps" in a message board post, but more challenging to adapt them to a wiki, where every type of problem has its own section. The JK wiki is already so bloated with potential fixes. I, personally, think that trying to keep fixes a bit simpler, even if they may not work for everyone, helps the readability of the page. I mean, I could add 5 different information notes like "May not work with..." under every fix, but that would probably do more harm (to readability) than good, so I resist the temptation and leave it up to the reader to interpret the fix as a potential solution, rather than a guaranteed one. That's me, though.

Sheeh. I talk about editing pages as much as I actually edit them! Cheers.

Spending probably too much time researching and testing fixes for classic and obscure games? You and me both, hah! Anyway, I figured out what my problem with dgVoodoo was (and why I didn't see the forced AA/AF). Either dgVoodooCpl.exe or dgVoodoo.conf has to be present in the game directory (alongside the wrapper dlls). I assumed that it would be enough to run the Cpl from its own directory, and that its config file (once created) is later read at the game's launch. Nope! The documentation for the wrapper, as detailed as it is, doesn't mention it, either.

About JKDF2.com, I believe these fixes still hold true, however, they are specifically meant for the original CD release. Also, your experience running JK/MotS "out-of-the-box" seeems to run contrary to mine. Were you able to run these games without any fixes? For me, the CD version (1.00 and 1.01) would always crash at launch. Adding the -windowgui let me lauch the game, but it would still give me an error when I tried to start a new game. That issue was remedied by using the AMD driver fix. An alternative solution was to use dgVoodoo, this time without the switch.

The GOG version ran from the get-go, albeit in software mode by default. Both versions would crash on startup as soon as I applied the unofficial patch. Again, using the switch+driver fix combo or dgVoodoo+no switch did the trick. BTW, I'm on Win7, with FX-8300 and HD7970. I eventually was able to run the game with all the graphic and music improvements installed; in fact I recently finished my playthru of JK to conclude that every fix works as intended.

As a side note, I figured out IMO the best way to determine whether forcing AA/AF works. Run the game in its lowest resolution (the differences are more pronounced then), take a screenshot at a static location in the game by creating a save point (has to be one where you can actually see AA/AF at work), and then compare the two screenies by switching between them while viewing. Since the effect of using AA/AF is generally hard to notice in normal gameplay, I thought it best to compare static screens.

Right. May the Force be with you, bro!

dgVoodoo doesn't strictly need dgVoodoo.conf or dgVoodooCpl.exe. A game will use the wrapper without either. If you don't include dgVoodoo.conf, though, you're stuck using the default settings. They're fine, except for the highly annoying fact that they display a "dgVoodoo" watermark in the lower right corner during gameplay, by default. For that reason, a dgVoodoo.conf that sets that to disabled is almost a necessity. That's all that the "pre-configured" dgVoodoo files on JKDF2.com, which I linked to on the wiki page, are: the dgVoodoo files (albeit an older version) with the watermark already disabled for users. Further, dgVoodoo.conf can't be easily edited without dgVoodooCpl.exe. dgVoodooCpl.exe doesn't need to be in the same folder, but, if it's not, it'll use its globally saved settings (in AppData\Roaming) unless you actually change the path at the top to your game folder. It's easier just to copy it to the game folder of every game that uses dgVoodoo and run it from there.

I'm not saying that my "out of the box" experience with JK/MotS was different than yours. I spent a long time getting the games working with 3D acceleration. Either the games would crash, the display wouldn't be fullscreen or gameplay would be black except for the HUD. What I am saying is that applying the pre-patched unofficial patch and the dgVoodoo files ended up being the combination that got both working for me. You just said that, for both the CD release and the GOG release, the unofficial patch + dgVoodoo "did the trick." That's precisely what I'm saying.

I'm also not saying that the -windowgui switch and the AMD fix don't still work in some cases, but the unofficial patch + dgVoodoo (or alternate ddraw.dll) appears to work for a lot more (maybe all) people, so I'd call that the preferred solution and is why I consider -windowgui and the AMD fix "outdated." After all, why tell a person to try those first and just put up with starting the game in a window if it's no longer necessary, thanks to the better solution that's come along? Besides, if a person is going to go on to install mods (like JKE and JKR), he's going to have to install the unofficial patch eventually, anyways. It's better to just recommend that they do it first and not try all of the "outdated" potential solutions-- the -windowgui switch, the AMD driver fix, setting compatibility modes and so on--that could eventually create issues, rather than alleviate them. Those outdated potential fixes are still worth having on the wiki. I just think that they shouldn't be the very first recommendation; the unofficial patch + dgVoodoo should be.

As for AA/AF, I didn't put nearly as much method into it as you have :). I just picked a spot in a level and strafed back and forth a little to see that both worked. If I wouldn't have noticed it without taking screenshots, I wouldn't have felt it that it warranted mentioning as a tip. You might be playing in a higher resolution, though. At "only" 1680x1050, I can still spot aliasing, so the effects of AA and AF are noticeable if I slow down and take a look.

In the name of shameless self promotion ;), have you seen the mod that I released the other day? It's the same as the earlier "LOD mod," but without the problems with that mod that discouraged people from using it.

https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/918-high-detail-mod-for-jedi-knight-df2-mots/

That's right... I'm not just editing wiki pages, but trying to improve the solutions that they point to, as well. I have no life :).

I hear you when you say that the simplest solutions work best. I also believe that just dropping a bunch of files in the game directory is more practical than applying various compatibility fixes and experimenting with command line switches. And I think that most people willing to replay JK/MotS today are going to go for the mods anyway. The laughable low-poly models were what threw me off the game in the first place.

About your new solution to the LOD problem - great work, I think an automated installer works best for majority. Did you just create the installer or are you also the author of this mod? I was curious myself how to disassemble these GOB/GOO files.

I recently completed JK using driver fix+switch and the old LOD mod, without an issue. I'm gonna play thru MotS using dgVodoo and the new LOD solution to see how they both perform. Speaking of, MotS with all the eye candy needs a beast of a CPU! I know my FX can hardly be called one, but at 4.5 GHz it should be powerful enough to run a 20-year-old game :) Meanwhile, I get drops to below 30fps already in the first level, with the GPU clocks not even switching to 3d mode! It seems that the game engine itself is already past its limits...

Thanks. I did both, the mod and the installer. Two weeks ago, I had no clue about JK's file structure, either, so it was fun to figure that out. If you're interested, I got all of the tools from here:

http://www.jkhub.net/library/tools.php

Container Manager (ConMan) is one of the more crucial, since it opens, extracts and creates GOB/GOO files. Inside each GOB/GOO are all of its individual resource files. MAT files are textures (and need one of the other tools to open), 3DO files are objects (ditto) and JKL files are levels (but are just text files that you can open in a text editor, preferably something like Notepad++). Something that makes testing so much easier is that you don't have to re-GOB/GOO the files to use them in the game. The game will load them if they're in a folder under Episode (and, maybe Resource and Mods, though I didn't test that). In fact, that's how my installer installs them, since I found that, if they're in a folder named the same as one of the GOB/GOO files, the game will load the GOB/GOO first and then patch any changes in the folder after that. That way, I don't replace the user's GOG/GOO file.

I'm relieved to hear that you like the installer method, because I was hesitant at first. I'm not big on installers, myself, and prefer extracting and manually copying, which is why I added an option to merely extract the files. Some people don't know where their games are installed (especially Steam versions), are wary about making the wrong changes with mods and/or just like having uninstaller, though. I do some simple checking of the registry and file system to try to find the path to each game, whether the GOG, Steam or CD versions were installed. Hopefully, they work.

I'm about to play through MotS, myself, as well. I don't think I've actually ever played it, so this could be fun. If you're not happy with the performance, remember that you might be forcing 8x AA in dgVoodoo. Also, you could try without MotS Enhanced and the Retexture Pack, if you're using those. Getting "drops below 30fps" isn't the end of the world, though. When these games were new (and I had old Verite cards), I was happy just to get close to 24fps ;).

Edit: I was wrong. I definitely remember playing it now, though it's been almost 20 years. Some things, like trying to rambo the impossible front entrance on level 2 leave a lasting memory ;).

Wow, even more respect for you then - for making the mod and the installer! Really good piece of work, my good sir :) Although I'm not a huge fan of installers myself - especially when it comes to modding - I realize that most people come here looking for a quick "one-click" solution. And so I especially liked the extract option that you included for us tinkerers. Also, the fact that it doesn't overwrite the existing files is a very elegant solution. Got an issue to report though: I ran the installer on a fresh GOG copy of JK and MotS but it "detected" the old LOD mod. It seems that the GOG releases use a different version of JK1.GOB/JKM.GOO than the CD one. Oh yeah, and thanks for sharing your findings!

About MotS performing poorly, disabling AA wouldn't make a difference. It's not the GPU which is struggling, as evidenced by its low clocks. The problem is that the Sith engine uses a very early version - in fact, the first practical implementation - of Direct3d, that is 5.0. Until DX7.0 the renderer relies squarely on the CPU for all geometry calculations. The only solution would be to reduce the scene complexity - by uninstalling MotS enhanced, as you suggested. But that would greatly reduce the esthetics, even though the models are a clear upgrade from JK. Well, I guess I'll just have to do with the drops...

Also, it's really nice to see another gaming veteran like myself :) Used to have the Riva128 in those days. Ahh, the memories...

Did you happen to download the mod before I told you about it? I had an initial version up for just a day, on Friday or Saturday, that mistakenly detected the original JKM.gob as the one from the old LOD mod. I quickly corrected it, but you might've been one of the ones who downloaded it. I'll re-install the GOG versions of both to make sure, though. Thanks for the notice.

That sounds familiar: the Sith engine being one of the first D3D engines. I have a faint memory of being extra excited for Jedi Knight because it was one of the first implementations. In fact, those limitations of the engine that you speak of could well be why the game has such aggressive LOD, more aggressive than I remember other games at the time having. For example, I don't recall Quake's textures popping or enemies transforming this badly as you got near, probably because OpenGL was a much more mature renderer at the time (well, that and Carmack being a legend).

Edit: I just downloaded the installer (to check that it was the newer version) and tested with clean installations of both GOG versions. I didn't get the warning about the original LOD mod, so I think that you were using the old version of the installer. I did learn something, though, which is that I needed to take into account that people will get a Windows Smartscreen warning when they run the installer, since it's an unsigned executable from the internet. That's not a problem for many, but some users might be hesitant to dismiss the warning or not realize how to. For that reason, and you may like this, I think that I'll separate the installer from the files so that anyone who doesn't want to or can't run the installer can copy the files manually, instead. I considered doing that in the first place, but didn't want to have to zip everything up, something which I ended up having to do, anyways, when I found that this site doesn't accept .EXEs for upload.

Yeah, I grabbed your mod early - must have been the initial version. Working good so far, checked with and without dgVoodoo, with and without the mods. BTW, did you manage to run the patched MotS without the ISO? I tried different variants of JK_.CD to no avail. Also, I've been trying out various cvars in JO, might end up with some more tweaks. Did you notice how long the level loads in this game are? It must have taken well over one minute on the hardware of the time!

I made a mistake in assuming that copying JK_.CD from the MotS CD would remove the CD check. That works for JK, but, for some reason, not with MotS. Just as oddly (though it could be related), the unofficial patch for JK doesn't remove the CD check, but the unofficial patch for MotS does (both the check for JK Disc 2 and one for the MotS disc), at least for me. Are you sure that the unofficial patch for MotS doesn't remove the CD check for you? Did you use the alternate installer and did you make sure to check the option in it to copy the videos? It worked for me.

Yeah, I was surprised that Jedi Outcast still takes a while to load, at least compared to JK and MotS, which are so fast that I can't read even the first line of each mission briefing. Yes, I remember the wait times being over a minute 15 years ago and not pleasant. BTW, if you haven't realized, Ctrl exits the in-engine cutscenes. I don't know why they made it so that Esc exits the pre-rendered cutscenes and not also the in-engine ones. Perhaps they were afraid that people would hammer Esc and miss too much. Have you tried the demo level yet? Man, that's hard, harder than any level that I remember in the main game. Maybe that's why they didn't include it in the main game.

Yep, tried the MotS unofficial patch (the pre-patched exe) on both CD and GOG version. Still asking for the CD. Minor nuisance though, I placed a shortcut to mount the ISO on the desktop. Could be because I'm on Win7? Also, thanks for the "skip-tip". Haven't got to the demo level yet, gotta finish MotS first :)

I just checked and I have a different version of the pre-patched unofficial patch with the CD check removed. Where did I get this? Oh, wait... I think that I remember a no-cd patch. Hmm... let's see if I can find it. Here it is: https://www.gamecopyworld.eu/games/pc_sw_jkm.shtml

I totally forgot that I ever applied that. Have you noticed how atrocious the level design is in MotS, especially compared to JK? LucasArts must've farmed the expansion out to 2nd-rate level designers.

I'm well familiar with this site ;) I thought the crack would break the unofficial patch, so I never tried it. But if it works for you, I should try it as well. And yes, the level design in MotS is definitely sub-par. I thought that this was one of the best features in JK. According to Moby Games, the levels in MotS were indeed designed by an entirely different team.

Meanwhile, would you mind testing something little I made for JO? I redid the SP loading screens in hi-res: [mega:#!EIx0yA4A!bj9STWu8r8VQhYeiTtUrNaMw8Tx3yekMKkjyvtzghaU mega:#!EIx0yA4A!bj9STWu8r8VQhYeiTtUrNaMw8Tx3yekMKkjyvtzghaU] (I can't seem to insert the link correctly, pls copy-paste) Just drop the file in GameData\base. Could you tell me if it fixes the "white loading screen" (AKA no loading screen/progress bar) for you?

Yeah, surprisingly, the crack works with the unofficial patch. I'm toying around with the idea of uploading a package that includes the pre-cracked, pre-patched JKM.exe and the pre-patched JK.exe + JK_.CD so that I can link them on the wikis and save people an extra few steps. I'd like to be able to say "apply this" and then not have to follow it up with more instructions to remove the CD check.

Loading screens and progress bars were already working for me in JO (after a brief white screen lasting only a second or two). Were they not for you? The loading screens were really low res, though. With your PK3, they're much sharper and look as nice as you'd expect. Good job. Ah, yeah, I see that they were 256x256 before and you made 1024x1024 versions.

Edit: Oh, I just discovered something. I was getting a long white screen at game launch and realized that it was while the intro logos should've been playing. Almost accidentally, I ended up resetting my display settings to the defaults, 640x480, and I suddenly got the intro videos and no white screen. So, I'm guessing that the white screens are a result of tweaking the .cfg files for widescreen resolutions that the game probably wasn't really designed for.

Edit: Yep. I can select any of the built-in resolutions (1280x1024 is the highest that I can go on this monitor) and not get any white screens anywhere in the game, but as soon as I change r_mode in jk2config.cfg to -1 to use my custom resolution (1680x1050), the white screens return. I just found that the "no intro videos" solution on the wiki eliminates that white screen, thank goodness, but won't affect other white screens. At least the rest of the game's videos play for me. It's only the logos that don't.

Edit: ...and I just discovered that all of this is on the wiki in the widescreen section. I just wasted half an hour. Hah.

Combining the patch with the cracked exe would simplify things, but I'm not sure what the official policy here on using/advocating "no-CD cracks" is. Shouldn't really matter for a 20-year-old game (when the ISOs can be easily found online), but JK and MotS are still commercial titles.

I have the same observations regarding the white screens in JO as you. Using the intro skip fix takes care of the opening credits anyway. Also, thanks for your kind words regarding my hi-res loading screens! Since we spend quite some time looking at them, I thought they could be at least easier on the eyes :) I redid the remaining MP screens. Those were a bit more of a pain to do, but I tried to stick to the originals as much as possible. Now, how do I upload this onto the Wiki? Any advice?

The thing is that the current commercial releases of MotS, from GOG and Steam, have already been patched to remove CD checks. Naturally, they don't check for the MotS CD and, because they offer MotS as a standalone game, they don't check for the JK disc, either. Applying the unofficial patch actually re-introduces both checks, thus breaking the game for users who legally own it. GOG and Steam users can't even use the unofficial patch unless they crack it (or happen to have the original CDs, like you). Hopefully, the mods see it the same way.

I'm also toying with the alternate idea of maybe bundling other fixes (dgVoodoo, the fixed winmm.dll, indirectSound and the ATI fix) in, as well, maybe with an installer, to make an "all-in-one fix" that'll save people a lot of steps. I'm not sure which is best. Would people prefer a single package that fixes all (or most) compatibility issues or do they prefer downloading everything separately, knowing exactly what they are and testing between each one? I don't know. Edit: Hmm. I just had a thought. I could bundle them, but keep them in separate folders, with their original documentation, allowing savvy users to decide to apply only what they want, but providing an installer that simplifies things for more casual users.

You probably want to upload your loading screens to the files forum:

https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/

It can take the better part of a day or overnight to get approved by a moderator, but it's the sensible location for files that are linked on the wiki.

Tip: Compose and preview your post in a PM to someone, since the upload form has no preview button and editing the post afterwards queues it up for moderation again. That was really frustrating me, so I sent a PM to Garrett and that tip came from him.

I'm having a strange issue trying to upload a file. I followed your link, but the page doesn't recognize me as logged in - though I am. Instead, it tells me to sign in. Even after I do that, it still shows me as unsigned. I thought maybe there was another way to upload a file, as I've always had this issue. What am I doing wrong?

About your idea of creating a "one-in-all" package for JK/MotS - I did the same for myself, as soon as I started looking for solutions to get the game running. Basically, I created an archive - with all the fixes and improvements - which follows the game directory structure. That way I can just extract all the files into the game folder in one step. However, I believe this kind of approach may not work for all users. I think most players come to PCGW looking for a specific fix, such as the game crashing. They may not be particularly interested in getting the most out of it, i.e. the ultimate visual/aural/gameplay experience. Of course, the active community here are likely a different flavor.

One more word about the high-quality sound effects download for JK you provided. Bluntly put, it does nothing. I appreciate both the author's and your effort, but the source sound files are at 22 kHz. Simply resampling them (according to the readme) will do nothing for quality, other than bloat the file size.

I had the same issue when I wanted to upload my first file. It showed me as signed in for wiki pages, but not signed in for the community forum. I think that it might've been that I needed to doubly confirm my account via e-mail. From the main site or any wiki page, click on your name in the upper corner, then on Preferences and see if there's anything about verifying/confirming yourself. It shows me as members of the following groups: Autoconfirmed users, Users, emailconfirmed.

I'm not talking about an all-in-one package that includes any mods or upgraded files. I'm just talking about fixes to get the games running: the unofficial patches, dgVoodoo files, the fixed music wrapper and such. Users do tend to come looking for a single fix, but, once they fix one thing, they often have to come back for a new fix. For example, they may apply the unofficial patch and come back because it's asking for a CD, then come back because 3D acceleration isn't working, then come back because music isn't working. I'm just thinking that, if they use an all-in-one package to apply the unofficial patches in the first place, and also install all of the other fixes that come with it, the game should work 100% the first time and save them repeatedly returning to the wiki and forums to fix the next problem. Edit: Hmm. I just had an idea. Instead of packaging them up and uploading them to this site, I could upload them to a folder at a cloud upload site. That way, I can link to the folder or hotlink to the individual fixes. I can also manage and update it more easily.

Yeah, I had the same thought about the high quality sound effects, that he was just upsampling them and wasting space. I wasn't sure, though, whether he might've cleaned them up for noise or taken some sounds (like blaster fire) from Jedi Outcast (like how Jedi Knight Enhanced lifts models from that game). Have you tried extracting the sound files and comparing them? I'm all for removing the section if they're really no different. Edit: I just opened them up and compared a few and they're identical, so I've removed the section.

Thanks for all the tips, I managed to put the file up eventually. It seems that to upload files you need to provide your email (which I didn't) and then confirm it. I looked at your upload page for the JK/MotS LOD mod and tried to include the same quality slider with mine, but it didn't work. I used the "image comparison" template, but it doesn't recognize the image URLs somehow. So, would you kindly...? ;)

I've also noticed that you included a multilanguage installer with your mod. Just wondering, was it machine translation? I think I could help you out a bit here.

About the "basic fix" package for JK, looks like someone's had this idea already. Have you checked out the link at the top of the page? And those "HQ" sounds, yeah, I listened to them and they do sound the same. I see you've already removed that section.

Upload your images with the site's image upload page: https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Special:Upload

If you already have, on that page, click on the "list of uploaded files" link, search for your name, then open them up.

Oh, I see that you've already uploaded quite a number of images over the years. In that case, that's how you can find them, again, if you didn't know.

Make sure that you're using the URLs to the actual images (not to the pages displaying them) in your image comparison tag, i.e. URLs that end in .jpg/.png/.bmp. In Chrome, I right-click on the "Original file" link and choose "Copy link address." If the resolution is bigger than you want, you can try resizing it in the comp image tag or grabbing the 800px-wide preview image URL, instead.

Here's the code for my first image comparison:

[compimg]https://pcgamingwiki.com/images/e/ec/High_Detail_Mod_for_JK_-_Comparison_1_%28Before%29.jpg | https://pcgamingwiki.com/images/6/65/High_Detail_Mod_for_JK_-_Comparison_1_%28After%29.jpg | 859 | 517 | Before (w/o High Detail Mod) | After (w/ High Detail Mod)[/compimg]

(I had to add spaces on either side of every pipe here to get everything to display correctly. I didn't include those spaces in my upload post, though it may not make a difference there.)

If your URLs are right, make sure that you get the rest of the parameters right. "859" and "517" in mine are because my images are 859x517 in size. My guess is that you can choose any numbers and the site will resize them to that size, but I wanted to play things safely, so I simply uploaded them in the size that I wanted.

Yes, I simply used Google Translate to translate the installer text. Thanks, but I'm fine with it being horribly translated. I did it only because I could do it in about an hour and it was fun to see if I could. I don't care to spend any more time on it for a simple installer that people will run once, if at all (since it's optional now).

Have you clicked the link to that "Windows Essentials" package yet? It's 1.4GB! It must include every quality enhancement/mod that there is. I'm not sure that that author understands what "essentials" means... lol.

Man, it finally worked! Thank you so much! Your detailed instructions really helped. I thought the parameters following the URLs were optional, but apparently you have to provide them. And yes, I've seen that "essentials pack". The bulk of the archive is actually the videos where the guy tries to explain what he did! They don't even play correctly for me, just stopping at random. I mean, that was a well-meant effort on his part, but he could've at least uploaded the videos separately...

Nice job! It's already been approved. I've added the package to my personal archive. When I re-play the game in 5 years (since I did so only last year), it'll be all ready to apply and I'll look at it and think back fondly on our lovely conversation... or I'll go "what is this, where in the world did I get it and who the heck is Quiet Bob?" Ah, memories!

If it's been a while since you played Outlaws, now's the time to do it. I just spent a few hours adding 7... seven... fixes to the Outlaws wiki page. It just looked so pathetic with only a single fix on it before. Haha. I just checked the History and my edit added +4,183 bytes. I dare you to beat that ;).

Not half bad! Nice work on those Outlaws fixes, all very practical and nicely annotated. I never really played this game, guess now I don't have a choice ;) One point about dgVoodoo, though. It does use Direct3d 11.0 as output, but at feature levels 10_1 and 10_0. So it can be used as a fix even for old DX10-class hardware. Your tips mention dgVoodoo as a "DX11+" solution, maybe this should be clarified somehow?

I'd never really played Outlaws beyond the the first level, the demo level, until I played it last year. I really enjoyed it. It uses the Jedi engine that Dark Forces did, but adds mouselook and high resolutions.

I initially did list dgVoodoo 2 as requiring DX10, but then I remembered that I'd been unable to use it on my DX10.1-class GPU in my old laptop. I see now that the dgVoodoo readme says that it requires DX10.0 hardware, so now I'm more confused than before. My anecdotal troubles probably shouldn't trump the author listing DX10.0 in the requirements, so I suppose that it probably should be changed back. Hopefully, others don't have the same issues as me.

Just tried the latest dgVoodoo on my ancient laptop with DX10.0 GF. JK ran just fine. What GPU does your laptop have?

It's an AMD Mobility Radeon 4500 Series. It doesn't appear as though Dege tested dgVoodoo 2 on any DX10 AMD hardware (the oldest that he lists is an AMD HD 6450), so perhaps it has issues with that era of AMD hardware, at least on the mobile side (where I've found that AMD stops updating drivers after only a year or two). For the record, the ATI fix didn't help.

Anyways, it doesn't matter too much. I've already updated the few wiki pages to list DX10, instead.

Latest driver should be supposedly this - but if you check the first row here you might get some surprise.

Aside of that, given your 2009 gpu very likely came in a Vista, if you haven't upgraded it in the meantime, you should make sure you have all the updates installed (KB971644 is needed for Dx11 and its feature levels)

TBH though, I'd recommend you to check dxwrapper. I'm not really into this kind of business anymore, but it always sounded to me as neater than dgVoodoo.

As per cracks, you can check this very recent thread. Given how much the games are old *though*, and how they haven't really any sort of DRM at all.. I'd be wondering how difficult it might be to hex patch them
If not very much, it would really be a first, but I believe we could even get to explicitly mention the procedure (since, aside of all abandonware considerations and all, that'd technically be free speech)

What else? Given you are so good-willed, could you check how this compares to indirectsound? (oh, and/or other solutions, if you really really really are at it)

Thank you.

I'm no longer using that 2009 laptop, but thanks for trying to help, anyways.

Thanks for the link to DxWrapper. That may come in handy in the future.

I've seen that IndirectSound alternative before, but I'm not sure that I've tested it yet. Theoretically, it sounds better than IndirectSound, since it supports EAX, but who knows about compatibility in practice. The author says that he made it for and tested it specifically with Morrowind and Oblivion, whereas IndirectSound is meant to be a general wrapper that's been tested with a wide range of games, so the compatibility lists for the two could be wildly different.

I spent months last Summer creating a package for restoring A3D (that I still haven't released) and am still burnt out on the sound restoration thing. I might get re-interested in the future, though. You never know.

Wtf restoring A3D?

I thought I was like the second most dedicated fella on the net (for as much as I have no card), after the kinda-shadowy-still-anyway-god ZanQuance.

Is your package any better/different than what I mentioned here? (and you shouldn't pay attention to "specific testing" d: )

It's basically the same thing, just all of those things (A2D + QSound A3D + DirectSound3D) bundled together with an installer so that people can just install one thing and forget it (no putting files into their game folders, even). I originally decided to put it together to replace A3D-Live!, since that 1) is Russian (including the website), which might scare people off, and 2) its website domain was down for weeks (making me wonder if it was down for good). If you'd like to try it, I attached it at post #17 here: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=48219